wow a new topic!!
...and to think i was getting worried...

all points that have already been given are very good points... two years... it's amazing what two years can do for a couple depending on how the two people are... i've seen couples that have been together for that long and know each other inside and out... and there are other couples that have been together for that long and really don't know each other at all...

it's hard to comment on something like this and not put my experience out on the table. it's like what the movie the mexican asks "when do you get to that point when enough is enough?" well, if you love someone enough, the answer is never... and there are just times when the love is not enough and that's the end of the relationship... there are many important factors to consider when it comes to a lasting relationship, whether it has been 1 month or 1 year :

communication - communication is the utmost importance in a relationship... how are you supposed to deal with problems if you can't voice them. i know that was my problem in my relationship of 7 years... i was afraid to communicate. everytime i tried, i would get a "not so good" response from him, which caused me to fear communication with him and therefore i kept everything inside most of the time. both partners need to have each other understand not to be afraid to voice out what they are feeling. to work things out is a growing experience for the relationship... and to grow together is to learn from one another... and not to be threatened or afraid of what is being said... the person who is sharing obviously cares enough about the relationship to try and deal with the situation.

honesty - a part of communication, honesty is a golden rule. sure, honesty can be cruel to a point, but depending on the person, sometimes cruelty can be a part of learning how to deal with the negative aspects of the relationship and see things at a different light. in a recent past relationship, i urged him to be honest of how he felt... the more honest he was, the more respect i had for him... i know it's nuts but even when his honesty was in a way cruel, i didn't get upset but appreciated his honesty and it helped me grow as an individual.

family - hmmm... it is quite tough when the family is not liking the person you are with... but remember, the family is not always right. i know they have your best interest at heart, but if you know your family well enough, you know when they are just going overboard in protecting you... for example, i have been getting closer to an ex recently, friendship wise... i consider him a very close friend... but one day my mother asked me about him and asked if we were seeing each other again... i replied no... she responded by saying that she doesn't trust him... keep in mind my mother had not seen him in 9 years, which was the last time he and i were "together" and she had seen him on christmas day when he picked me up from her house... i didn't quite understand... i need clarification on why she felt that way when all he did was come in and wish her a merry christmas... she just said she just had a feeling and maybe it was his personality... i still didn't understand, all he said to her was merry christmas and we left... ah, mothers will be mothers... i'm sure i'll be the same with my daughter when she starts dating... OMIGOSH... NO!!

religion - well, i'm not sure... i mean, i was raised roman catholic and my 7 year relationship was christian... in this case i converted only because i wanted to... there were certain aspects of roman catholicism that i didn't quite agree with and therefore i switched, but it doesn't stop me from going to church once in a while with my mom. i believe that as long as i'm praying to one God, it doesn't really matter what house of worship i do it in...

but all in all it's up to your friend... maybe bern is right, he did invest a lot of time in the relationship already, why not try and fix it. in my case of 7 years, i was just tired of everything. it was a relationship of some good times but overwhelming bad times. i was a type of person who was very subservant to him and just kept my issues to myself, again, for the reason that i had in a way feared him. when that fateful night happened, it triggered something in my head that said, no, don't take him back, it's not worth it anymore. granted we had a child together and perhaps we should have stayed together and try and work things out... but i saw it too many times with my own life that i refuse to put my own daughter through the same things that i went through as a child growing up with an abusive father and a depressed mother (hmmm, not quite the typical nuclear family, i don't mind sharing this with you guys as you guys are what i consider friends, blogger friends at that ;-) )... luckily this relationship doesn't involve a child. but really it brings it back to the question "when do you get to the point when enough is enough?" maybe it's my bitter and jaded self talking, but really, if he doesn't see a future with her, why prolong it? why prevent her or him finding someone who they do see a future with? why settle for what you have right now, when you know it won't make you as happy as you know you can be? happy endings seem to be rare these days so i really hope and pray that they figure things out for themselves.

i was about to post a new topic...
when i realized there's a new one here already! (thanks gary) i was running out of ideas...... =P

two years and still having doubts?
in my opinion and experience, i noticed that two years seems to be the crossroads of a relationship. the point where you realize, "this relationship is going great and i want to take it to another level..." or "...maybe this is not where i want to be with this person" and what-not. in both of the two-year relationships that i had [one at the end of high school/beginning of college, and one at the end of college/beginning of my career], we broke up because we were moving in different directions in our lives, in addition to small issues/annoyances that couldnt be addressed or taken care of at the time. it was hard at first, but in the end it was all for the better. not that i planned it that way in those relationships, but after two years, you pretty much get to know a person enough to see what makes them tick, and also figure if you are n'sync with them (hehe, that was for ms. luzon). i think a lot of it has to do with how you grow together as a couple. and after those two years you find that you've grown apart, then, well it's time to step back and re-evaluate. (oh, and btw, i am still friends w/ both of those guys i went out with =))

key things to consider:

communication
i agree w/ meesh. are they on the same page? have they discussed these issues? if so, is it like beating a dead horse? like the same disscussion over and over and over with out any resolution?... hm. with that, sometimes you cant very well re-teach someone to behave, esp if they are stubborn (ie, like me.. hehehe), or ask someone to drastically change the way they think, talk, act, etc, unless there is a conscious effort on their part to want to be different. either way, they each need to know where each is coming from. and then comes..

compromise
all relationships have some form of compromise. is he willing to compromise his feelings about certain issues for her? if he does compromise, does it compromise his feelings? (hm, did that make sense?) basically, if he does give in on some of the issues, is he giving up on what he believes in himself?... it is kind of hard to do that, and in the end if he does compromise, will he be happy with himself and the decisions he made?

timing/circumstance
another factor in making a relationship work is the timing and circumstance. ppl might have all the chemistry in the world, but the timing could be more wrong. example, he's in school on the other side of the nation. she is done with school and she's ready to tackle her career. great chemistry when they are together, but they are not in the same time zone, nor the same mentality. he's still trying to reach a goal (degree) while she's establishing herself for a future (house, marriage). sometimes you pretty much need to be in the same stage in life...

family
this one's kinda hard. on one hand, it's not your parents who is going out w/ the person, YOU are! so what does it matter if they dont like her or not?! but then at the same time, parental approval would only make the relationship THAT much better. *sigh* again, in the end, it would just be so much better if the parents were supportive. =P

religion
and yet another hard one. hm. i'm not sure i have thoughts on this one because in both my two-year relationships, we were the same religion.

you know i'm all for happy endings, and would like things to work out and have them stay together. but sometimes there's also that point where you might have to step back from it all and take a "break" from the relationship to figure out where you are ["We were on a BREAK!!!!!" yells Ross, from Friends... hehehe], especially if you love and care for the person.

and he could probably even be thinking, "i've invested all this time in this relationship, and that was two years of my life... i dont want to feel like i've wasted them!.. " i'm sure in those two years, he may have learned things about himself with her that he probably wouldnt have learned if he was with someone else, or by himself. so not all is a loss. it may do more harm than good if they stay together, esp if they have that much stacked against them and trying to resolve the issues is not making either party happy. but then again, they could very well work things out and live happily ever after. then GREAT and more power to them! they should write a book on how they overcame the obstacles!!

maybe he already knows what he needs to do, and is just delaying the inevitable?

but that's just my opinion. and easier said than done. but as they say:

"if you love him/her, set him/her free, if he/she comes back it was meant to be...."

Is this the new topic for 2002?

This is just my opinion and merely an observation (which shouldn't matter).

To be in love with someone and facing these issues is definitely a hard place to be in. From the sounds of it, he's probably at a point in his life where he wants to take the relationship to another level. Although "he doesn't see himself marrying her", he is thinking about settling down. Maybe not in the near future, but the thought is on his mind. As for the "buts", that kinda touches on the topic discussed before on wanting someone to change or be a certain way.

The main question is: Have they discussed these issues? I mean, have they had a real "heart-to-heart" talk on this? Yes, he sees these issues (and maybe she sees them too), but does she know how they affect him? And have they discussed compromising on any of them?

Father doesn't approve
Is it because her father doesn't like him? Or is it just that her father doesn't like any guy in general?

Smoking
Only she can change that. As long as he's expressed his views on this, the ball is in her court. He's done everything he can.

Different religion
I've heard of some cases where couples, each of a different religion, got married and somehow combined the 2 religions.

Different times in their lives
I think this is where communication is key. Although they can't be expected to totally understand what the other person has gone through, they can at least help each other understand (does that make sense?).

He is the number one thing in her life
If he's involved in extra-curricular activities, has he suggested that maybe she should be involved in something too? Or perhaps she doesn't want to be involved in other things and chooses to spend time with him. If that's the case, she shouldn't be "dependent on his time". It's one thing to want to spend time with someone, but it's another to "depend" on being with them.

No one seems to think it would "work"
Relationships take a lot of work and only they can control that. I mean, who said relationships were easy?

It's good that he's optimistic on things, but what does he really want and does she know about it?

[phoenix, arizona]

Two years, and still having doubts
My recent discussions about relationships is reflected around the people around me. A cousin recently wrote me concerned about her sister who is getting married (and they only knew each other for a few months). That can't be that bad. My parents only knew each other for 2 or 3 months, and my Lola and Lolo, even less. But times are different these days. Maybe love is even different?

I know of this couple that has been seeing each other for over two years now. And to this day, he still doesn't see himself marrying her. There are so many "buts". "I wish she was like this or that". And he has come to the realization that some people are put on earth to help others get to where they want to be. When I look back at my past relationships, I looked at how much I have learned from each one. For me, I'd be afraid to go with someone who has never had a boyfriend, because I feel it would be a learning stepping stone in her relationship.

I know that they probably won't read this, they barely read my blog, but this is what my friend and I discusses as "issues" in the relationship:

Father doesn't approve
Her father doesn't like him at all, therefore he never goes to her house. I find this totally weird. It reminded me of my ex to where she didn't want her mom to know about us, and the crazy thing is that she was even my dentist! If you can't get along with her parents, what is going to happen when they get married? What about when they have kids? My grandparents (on both sides) helped raise me since my parents didn't have money to afford a baby sitter.

Equally, his mom is quite worried about the relationship from what she has seen...

Smoking
I have talked enough about this subject.

Different religion
I don't think this is a major issue in their relationship, but it is pretty important.

Different times in their life
She is still a student and still figuring things out. It bothers him that she lacks passion in her life. Where he is the total opposite. He has everything laid out for him. Usually this shouldn't be a big deal, because in relationships, you can work things out. It also has to do with the fact that his life was so "sheltered" compared to hers. She can't expect him to "understand" some of the things that she has gone through and vice versa. He's not saying that they should be the "same" but there has to be a point where their life can be "too different"

He is the number one thing in her life
Well, besides her family, he is everything. My friend fills his life with other extra activites, to where she has: school, family, and him. I'm concerned because many of their arguements are based of the fact that he doesn't have enough "time" for her. Almost to the point where she is "dependent" on his "time"

No one seems to think it would "work"
Not that everyone's opinions matter. But out of all the successful marriages I have seen. Everyone usually says, "wow, they just make the perfect couple" -It is almost common sense.

My friend sees all this. But what makes it hard is that he is in love. And when you are in love and faced with this issues, it puts you in a really hard place. He is quite optimistic, and he is always looking for the "good" in her. But he also acknowledges that if he was "any other guy", he would have dropped her a long time ago...

[concord]

cambios --everyone else was writing "changes" in english, so i'm being quasi-creative
Right. So, being the last person to contribute to this issue, everyone's covered all the bases. Change is good if changing bad habits to good ones, and vice versa.

Now, is it okay to change aspects of the core of your being for the other person? My knee jerk reaction is that it is unacceptable to compromise myself in order to attract Person B. I'm not changing my sense of humor, my laugh, my dress, my walk, my dance, my favorite movies, my favorite music, nor my favorite food to attract someone else. All of these things help define me.

There is, however, a fine line between selling out and being open-minded. I wasn't really interested in Ballet before. There was a girl in my class who was a ballerina and we became good friends. After seeing one of her performances, I became highly interested in dance and started watching shows on my own. I learned about dance because it is one of the most beautiful forms of self expression, but I also became interested in it in order to have better conversations with my friend. Meeting her lead to my enculturation about dance. I don't think i'd have ever read George Balanchine's biography or attended performances by the New York City Ballet, the Kirov, and Alvin Ailey American Dance Theatre if not for my friend. I have more dimension thanks to her.

Interactions with others spur growth and introduce challenge. Though the idea of changing oneself for another person sounds terrible, it really isn't so bad. One of the reasons we are attracted to people (sexually) or are interested in people (platonically) is that they possess attitudes, mentalities, and/or personality traits that we don't have or have never explored. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Changing yourself for someone is more than just attempting to catch Person B's attention. More than that, I think such acts are (sub)conscious attempts to explore and improve oneself.

[san francisco, Chestnut Coffee Roastery]

Changes
I have to agree with everyone on this page. Change for the better, quit smoking, drugs, etc... That is okay. I don't think it really changes someone's character. Change takes many many years, if it does happen. I often see the same mistakes that girls make when going back with someone after breaking up with them. I mean, if you have gotten to the point of giving up, why try to make things work again after forgetting the pain? It just becomes a terrible cycle of complaint and pain.

Or what about if the girl knows that she isn't "the one" but is trying her best to be "the one?" What about the guy who is seeing this girl? I have learned through experience and through my friends' past relationships that there is a common pattern for failed relationships. They often started physically first, and then tried to work into the friendship aspect of it all. As one spends more time with someone, those little annoyances that may not have been apparant or ignored may appear after the newness of the physical attraction may have worn off. But without writing a new article on it, I guess you can click on that link.

Passion to love... Sometimes love can be blind. What do you think Joanie ;-)

[work - burnaby, bc canada]

keeping up the blog

wow, it sure has been a while since we've done any blogs here, or maybe it just me... but proud to be the first entry of the year 2002....

How much should one person change and or compromise in order to attract someone else? Is it worth it? Any pros / cons?

no thought into it, huh? ooooh, don't know if that's such a good idea... but ok, here goes :

change or compromise to attract someone else should not be done unless it's for yourself... actually no, i don't think any change should be done if it's to attract the other person... one should be happy with themselves... if it's a change that they are wanting to do and by coincidence this change would attract this particular someone, then they are still doing it for themselves... hmmm... does that make sense?